unless, there is a particularly big item. a set of photographs or something that is, needs to be discussed on a wider level. then the editor will be brought in. >> so stuart would have discussed payments to private detectives with you? >> not necessarily, no. we're talking 11 years ago. he may have discussed payments to me but i don't particularly remember any incidents. >> you don't remember whether you would have discussed any payments at all? >> no, i didn't say that. i said in relation to private detectives. >> yes. >> i was aware "the news of the world" used private detectives as every paper on fleet streit did. >> you don't required whether you authorized payments or -- >> the payments of those private detectives would have gone through the managing editor's office. >> you can't remember when he discussed it with you. >> sorry. >> you can't remember whether stuart cutler discussed it with you. >> i can't remember discussing individual payments. >> in your letter in 2009 you said you did not recall meeting glenn mulcaire